Other web Sites
Harmonica Blues  Harmonica Amps
Harmonica Links Harmonica Pages
• Archives Home
• Years
 · 1992
 · 1993
 · 1994
 · 1995
 · 1996
 · 1997 		 · 1998
 · 1999
 · 2000
 · 2001
 · 2002
 · 2003
 
Web HarpL
Ebay Searches:
Amps:
Microphones:
Effects:
Harmonicas and Gear:
Harmonica Music and Instruction:

 

 

Harp-L Archives

[Previous Message] [Next Message]
[Previous in Thread] [Next in Thread]
[Start of Thread] [End of Thread]

From: JJTHAD~IFE.UAMS.EDU
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 13:19:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: copyright

Jon Gindick wrote on 5 Sep '96:
>When I first joined Harp-L, a guy sent me some private e-mail
>describing the overblow. I was reworking R/B Harmonica at the time, and was
>trying to write about the o/b (which I don't do, on purpose!). . . .

I am that "guy", a guy grateful to hundreds of harmonica players for
teaching him techniques and licks, a guy who'll jump at the chance to
give a little back to a player with an earnest desire to learn something.
That, Jon, is how you represented yourself when you asked me about over-
blowing, not as a writer researching a book. If misrepresentation was
intentional, I question the ethics of it.

>I used some of
>what this guy told me, some of what Howard Levy told me, some of other things
>I had heard--and of course, being the bad poet I am, rewrote. I thought the
>guy would be happy when I talked to him and said, "Hey, I'm using some of the
>ideas you sent me." But he wasn't happy at all. He felt ripped off. . . .

This is accurate. I felt duped,and said so. Jon's reply was something like
"but you knew I was a writer!" So now I should consult "Forthcoming Books in
Print" before answering my e-mail!

>I felt
>horrible and made ammends by thanking him in the book for his contribution.
>Later I felt like a fool. . . .

What's foolish about thanking someone?

>In a 224 page book, two lines described ideas he
>had sent to me. Was this research on my part? Was I not supposed to write
>about ob's since he had sent me the free info? . . .

So just what did I write to Jon? Was it worth getting in a huff about?
Some of you Harp-L'ers (Bobbi?) will be able to guess, because I've written
variations on it both on-list and privately. I'm the "guy" who encourages
players to experiment with the coverplates off, blocking reeds with the
fingers, to learn about "opening" and "closing" reed (R. Johnston's terms)
contributions to overblows and bends. Best I recall, I walked Jon through
several such experiments so he could easily produce overblows/draws and
know why they were happening. I may have pointed out how thinking about
opening-reed contributions effectively unifies the theories of bending
and overblowing (FWIW, I believe I'm the first to "copyright" this experi-
mental/theoretical approach -- ca. 1982 in James MacKenzie's short-lived
magazine called "Harmonica Happenings". I didn't read this stuff in a
book-- except for Richard Hunter's wonderful treatment in "Jazz Harp"
(Oak Press). No, these "ideas" I discovered at the tuning bench and by
extrapolating from the figures and addendum of Robert Johnston's paper).

In retrospect, I wish my first response to Jon upon learning of his
intention to publish my ideas was "That's interesting. May I see exactly
what you plan to include?" I have not yet seen the two lines he says are
in R/B Harmonica, so I cannot say to what extent his writing passes the
test that Barry Bean suggested in a response to Jon's posting:

>What I think we have to weigh when we write is the relative
>importance of someone else's idea and our own experience or
>independent thought in producing a particular idea. . . .

Barry goes on to say

>In the example
>you cited, overblows have been discussed to such an extent in nearly
>every forum available to harmonica players that I wouldn't have felt
>obliged to credit a casual conversation.
>
>However, if it was a truly original idea, a completely new
>perspective, or an especially well thought-out argument, I'd credit
it.

Overblows were not well discussed when I figured this stuff out. The
conversation was not casual. My message to Jon was a detailed methodology
that results in overblows for even beginners.

Jon ended his recent message as follows:
>This guy soon after quit
>Harp-L. His thanks is in the published book, but I don't feel good about what
>happened, and don't think he does either. Yet, who's to blame? If I attend a
>lecture and the speaker says something that I want to use as a writer, should
>I refrain from using it? If this is the case, I would be better off not
>letting people talk to me about harp, otherwise they might think I've ripped
>them off. While direct quotes seem to me like a clear infringement, it's also
>true that what we're engaged in with Harp-L is a free expression of ideas,
>almost like a conversation. Seems to me that you can't be writing into a
>forum filled with writers and expect your ideas to still "belong" to you.
>There are degrees of everything, of course. Plus, I don't think ideas are
>copyrightable, only words. Any thoughts? Jon

Still here, though lately on lurker status. Thank you Jon for the acknowl-
edgement, though I wish it came from the heart. Recently in my field, a
young scientist published an "idea" article. So happens he did so weeks after
hearing a Nobel laureate speak--on exactly that subject, with exactly that idea
included at the tail end of the talk. The referees allowed the paper to be
published, but only with an addendum -- a detailed acknowledgement -- of the
role of the visiting lecturer. Jon, so should you feel free to use what you
hear, but only with acknowledgement, and yes, permission. Words versus ideas?
I'm not a lawyer, but I gather from the latest to-and-fro about copyrights
that ideas are considered by most to definitely merit protection.

Sincerely,

John Thaden
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

Copyright 1996, John Thaden, all rights reserved.