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From: Pat Missin
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 18:10:53 +0100
Subject: Re: Proving the existence of fish

Nice one Hugh! I have always been the first to admit the the blind tests I
have tried were very limited in scope. I doubt whether anything will ever
settle this argument once and for all, but the results should be
interesting, to say the least. And long overdue.

>
>As this argument has been ebbing and flowing on harp-l for a couple of
>years now, I'd like to propose a Blind Taste Test.
>
>We need two volunteers, one who asserts that comb materials make no
>difference to sound, and one who thinks they do.
>
>I'll dedicate as much space on the server as necessary to put up as many
>CD quality samples as we need. The two proponents need to record the same
>riff on as many harps as they have different comb materials.
>

If we are just looking for an audible difference between different comb
materials, then ideally, the same harp (ie the same covers and the same reed
plates) should be used, but the comb material changed. Different harps may
have different tones for reasons other that just the body material. (I think
that one of the reasons many blues players prefer wood-combed harps, is
because they are (or, certainly were) usually tuned in just intonation; this
difference often be perceived as a "mellower" or "warmer" sound when
compared with the roughness produced by a tempered tuning, such as seems to
be used on most plastic-bodied harps - spectrograms quite readily show all
the interference present in chords in tempered tuning.) Also, the dimensions
of the air channels should be the same on each comb. Anda gaskets should be
used in each case to minmise differences in compression. And the reeds
should be at the same temperature each time. And the same mike, at the same
distance, with the same recording settings each time. And comparisons can
only fairly be made between different harps (or rather the same harp on a
different body) played by the same player...

... of course, every time you blow into a harp, you blow slightly
differently from the last time, thus introducing another significant
variable. And then there is the problem of chromatics - it will be even
harder to get identically shaped bodies in different materials for the
chrom. I don't doubt for one second that the CX-12 has a different tone to
the Silver Concerto - what I am unsure about is how much of that difference
can be attributed to simply the materials used. I am curious to see how much
valves may affect the percieved tone of the harp - again, they produce
noticeably different spectrograms. It could be that there is lot to learn
from valved harps, that may be useful to unvalved ones...

And then there will always be someone who says "OK - so I can't tell the
difference between the samples, but when it's played live in front of me,
it's obvious!" So, I'm sorry, but when you say:

>
>Lets settle this one, folks.

... I can't imagine that we will actually settle it once and for all, but:

>Or at least get some empirical data to argue
>about, rather than the "does", "doesn't", "does", "doesn't" debate.
>
> -- hugh

I'm with you all the way on this one. This is data that should have been
collected years ago and harp-l has enough participants to make up a
significant sample. Is there anyone out there with skills in the area
statiscal analysis. Hey gang, let's do the show right here!


Pat Missin - pa~lobalnet.co.uk

"...my music's a lot better than it sounds!" (with apologies to Mark Twain)
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