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From: Mike Curtis
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 03:13:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Intensity and Devotion (Long) was Rorschach pos.

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Benoit Felten wrote:

>>Every time you do a good gig in front of people, Mike, THAT's when you
>>change people's perceptions of the instrument.
>
>> Yes - and precisely my point. How much more would peoples perception
>> change if EVERYONE played harmonica as well as, let's say,
>professional
>> classical violinists, or professional jazz saxophonists, or top notch
>> blues or rock guitarists? I'm not comparing instruments or styles -
>> merely levels of proficiency. If EVERYONE played harmonica REALLY
>well,
>> it would be a much more popular instrument, more in demand. EVERY
>band
>> would have to have one.
>
>Honestly, I'm not sure it's that big an issue : how many people have you
>heard playing lousy guitar, lousy drums, etc. ? And yet these people
>still play in bands, some of them even record stuff. Hey; some of them
>are even pop stars !

And that's the point - _S_O_M_E_ of these are hacks. MOST are pretty
doggone good, and some are fabulous. Can you say this for harmonica in
top 40 music? No - most harp players in top 40 bands are essentially
beginners.

>> Maybe not directly, but the more people who see the term "harmonica
>> player" and equate it with "good musicianship", the better off I (and
>ALL
>> harp pros) will be.
>
>That's certainly true. But there's no big 'me against the world'
>struggle here, as you and RB seem to think.

I stated earlier that I don't see it as a competition, or anything like
that. When people hear me play, they're impressed, so I don't have to
prove anything. I can add as much to a band with harmonica as anyone, be
it lead guitar, sax, trumpet, lead keyboard, etc., and arguably more
because there is a distinct novelty of a harmonica player who can
play REAL music (e.g. I play things that are expected of horn and guitar
players but are not expected of harmonica players - and I make them sound
just as good as they would if played on these other instruments.)

Disclaimer: The above is not intended as a brag - only to make the point
that people are surprised when a diatonic (or even chromatic) harmonicist
is able to do things that are pretty much expected of other musicians.

> I'm sure you'll agree that,
>as the instrument becomes more popular, there are more and more good
>harp players, high profile or not, and therefore this equation of terms
>is happening, slowly but surely, in people's minds.

But that's just my point - this is NOT happening. There have been
precious few really good harmonica players in the mainstream limilight.
John Popper does not constitute "more and more good harmonica players".

>> Which would be more likely to attract a good audience - a violin
>concerto,
>> or a kazoo concerto? A jazz concert featuring grand piano, or toy
>piano?
>> A band featuring a drummer, or one featuring a washboard player?
>Charlie
>> Mingus on upright bass, or on washtub bass?
>
>> While it may be possible to play good music on these, what are the
>odds
>> that they'll match up to the "serious" instruments?
>
>> Would you go see a jazz concert played on banjo? 20 years ago, this
>would
>< have been laughable. Today we have Bela Fleck. But still, when
>people
>> mention banjo, jazz is probably the last notion it inspires. However,
>if
>> there were as many great jazz banjoists as there are great jazz
>pianists,
>> saxophonists, et al, would the perception change? Of course it would.
>
>I'm not sure I understand your analogy here. Could you clarify your
>point ? I assume that you're talking about perception as opposed to
>actual potential of an instrument.

You understood my point perfectly - it's the PERCEPTION of all these
"other" instruments, e.g. banjo, kazoo, etc., as being somehow "lesser"
instruments, with no regard to who is playing them. When I played in
Greenwich Village, I worked with a couple of other musicians. One was
Neil Diamonds keyboard player, who doubled on flute (same time). Another
was a fellow who played "drums" on the bottom of a garbage can using
brushes, and played kazoo at the same time. Yes I know it sounds bad, but
he was an impeccable jazz drummer and got some really great sounds from
the garbage can. And his kazoo - he could do Miles better than Miles
could! With kazoo/muted-trumpet, flute, and my flutelike harmonica, we
sounded like a good jazz horn section. Add in the organ, organ bass, my
jazz guitar, and the brushed/drum sound of the garbage can and it really
did sound like a jazz combo.

But if you read about some band with a kazoo and garbage can drummer, what
would you expect? Probably something from the Little Rascals or Three
Stooges - right?

People expect this of harmonica.

Even though I play absolutely nothing like Bob Dylan, I still get a LOT of
requests for his tunes - and Neil Young as well. And even though my
harmonica based songlist is heavily laden with Earl Bostic, Big Jay
McNeely, Ace Cannon, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Joe Pass, Miles Davis,
Thelonius Monk, Kenny Burrell, Wes Montgomery, and such, and many in my
audience like these, I get surprisingly few requests for these.

> I agree that the harmonica is not perceived as a serious instrument by
>some people, maybe even many people.

And this costs all professional harmonica players money.

When Little Walter first popularized Chicago electric harp, EVERY Chicago
blues band HAD to have a harp player - even if it meant doing without a
drummer, etc.

> But that's changing, and it's more or less a natural course, to
>which we're all contributing in our own little way.
>
>> Exposure is much more important than valid approach to the instrument.
>>As I pointed out in the early stages of this thread there are just as
>>many dabblers in guitars, saxophones or pianos as their are in
>>harmonicas. And that doesn't make people disrespect these instruments,
>>does it ?
>
>> No, because there are also a lot of artists like Joe Pass, Eddie Van
>> Halen, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Van Cliburn, Big Jay McNeely,
>Jimi
>> Hendrix, and thousands of others who are notably great on these
>> instruments.
>
>Ah, but that's quite interesting : before Hendrix, how many people
>thought that the electric guitar was a serious instrument ? It was more
>or less limited to blues, until this guy comes in and blows everyvbody's
>faces... So that generation, the ones who saw and/or listened to Hendrix
>when they were kids now think that the electric guitar is a serious
>instrument. How about their parents ? They for the most part kept on
>thinking that the electric guitar was not a serious instrument. So the
>shift in perception is long, and it's happened for other instruments
>before !

Quite the contrary.

Elvis did much to popularize guitar, despite the fact that it was Scotty
Moore and crew that actually did the "good" stuff. Other guitar heroes
were Bill Haley, Bo Diddley (a rock artist back then), Chuck Berry, and
all the surf bands like the Surfaris, The Chantays, etc. And the Beach
Boys weren't all that bad on guitar, either. Link Wray, Duane Eddy, Les
Paul, Jorgen Ingmann, and lots of others. Also, Wes Montgomery had a
string of popular hits.

The everly Brothers, Jimmy Rogers (the "honeycomb" one, not the one with
Muddys band or the CW guy), Harry Belafonte, etc., did much to popularize
acoustic rhythm guitar. and we can add in the whole "folk music" thingie
back in the 60's, with Dylans guitar, Peter Paul and Mary, The Kingston
Trio, and a couple hundred others that I can think of off hand.

The Beatles weren't too bad, either, nor were the Stones. John Mayalls
bands and offshoots (e.g. Fleetwood Mac) provided plenty of great rock
guitarists, such as Peter Green, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Paige,
etc. And who could forget Cream and Led Zeppelin? Or the irrepressible
Arthur Lee and Love (the original Grassroots, before the "other" band
ripped off the name)

My dates may be a little fuzzy, but I _believe_ all of these were
pre-Hendrix.

I played in a lot of bands before Hendrix was popular. Back then, EVERY
band HAD to have a guitarist.

So while Hendrix brought many changes to guitar, he was just one small cog
(well, maybe a large cog - but just a cog) in a much larger wheel that
had been turning for MANY years previously.

>> We have Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Alanis Morrisette, Chrissie Hynde, and
>> many, many more along these lines - and John Popper. Yes I know there
>are
>> more good players, but outside of blues, how many are REALLY well
>known?
>
>I'm sidetracking a bit here, but I actually think that Bob Dylan, Neil
>Young and Alanis Morissette (especially Alanis Morissette) aren't
>actually doing the harmonica any good, much as their music is fine. The
>use they make of the instrument is in direct line with the 'campfire'
>image and that's what harmonica players are hoping will change...

Exactly!

>> Why is it that MOST pop music fans believe that Popper is BY FAR the
>best
>> harmonica player ever? If your selection were strictly limited to the
>> list above, which would you say is the best by a wide margin?
>
>I see your point. But we can't expect things to change overnight, and we
>can't expect our instrument to suddenly acquire the status we would like
>it to have. In ten years time, there will be more high profile harp
>player, whether RB continues his crusade or not. The point I was trying
>to make was that things are happening already thanks to every harp
>player in the world, not just RB.

I don't see it that way.

In the 70's we had Canned Heat and Alan Wilson.

In the 80's we had J, Geils and Magic Dick.

In the 90's we have Blues Traveler and John Popper.

And throughout we have had the Dylans, Youngs, and Morrisettes, who use
harmonica to essentially make noise between verses - and this is the
important point - these are noises that ANYONE can make. They don't need
a GOOD harmonica player. The bass players girlfriends kid brother can do
it (which is cool - but it doesn't create demand for MY services :-)

I could care less about contests and competitions, unless they put money
in my pocket.

Now back to my original point: If a lot more harmonica players put a lot
of work, intensity, and preparation into it, and went beyond the currently
perceived "limitations", there would be more demand for it - and _I_ would
have more work!

I hope this makes more sense now.


-- IronMan Mike Curtis
My CD "Doin' It All Myself" available in Tower, Blockbuster, Camelot, PX